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Radical Sacred

  • Esplicito

    Father's Day Special

    16 GIU 2024 · On this week’s special episode Phil and Jenny share memories and stories about their dads. Father’s Day can be a mixed bag for so many of us for so many different reasons. If your day feels complicated or heavy with grief you are not alone! We invite you to find joy where it can be found, to grieve however you may need to, and to do one small thing today that makes you feel connected to yourself, to God, and to those you love.  Connect with us on instagram at let us know your favorite memory of your father or a father figure and to find out about our upcoming episodes and summer gatherings!  Things we mentioned in this episode (or meant to anyways): - - -  -
    Played 31 min. 29 sec.
  • Esplicito

    A Time to Reflect...

    29 MAG 2024 · Thank you for hanging with us for this first season! Phil and Jenny reflect on the last 25 episodes of Radical Sacred! Did you have a favorite episode or guest? We’d love to hear from you! Connect with us on As we look forward to having some time to rest and reflect this summer this episode features conversations about where we’re finding hope and inspiration in podcasts, music, and books. If you love very random playlists that include music from Zach Bryan to Outkast to Ani Difranco to Childish Gambino find Radical Sacred’s We will have some in person offerings for this summer in mid-late July in the DFW area. Potentially an evening on Purity Culture, a birding outing, and maybe something to do with grief. If you want to join us for any or all of these let us know! Stay tuned (especially to our Instagram) for more info on connection this summer.  Jenny (podcasts, music, books) Podcasts- - Falling back in love with lately. - - - Music  - (ultimate sad cowboy music) - - - Books - - - - Phil (podcasts, music, books) Podcasts - Vox:, - - - - - - - - - Music - - - - - Books - - - - - - John O’Donohue from time to time Chapters: 00:00 Season Reflections and Literary Engagements 04:45 Exploring Embodiment and Self-Acceptance 10:47 Nature, Masculinity, and Podcast Recommendations 27:00 Podcasting, Guest Interviews, and Reflections 30:14 Aging, Adaptation, and the Pursuit of Wisdom 32:31 Gratitude and Engagement
    Played 40 min. 47 sec.
  • Transformation over Information: A Discussion on Palestine, Israel, Curiosity, and Concern

    22 MAG 2024 · There is so much information circling around what is taking place in Palestine/Israel. This episode is not a history lesson on the founding of Israel, the displacement of Palestinians, nor the current military occupation taking place in Gaza. There have been many books, documentaries, podcasts, etc created to do that. This episode is an invitation to join us in our journey as we wrestle to make sense of geo-politics and how religion is so often used to divide us, rather than bring us together. As stated in the episode, neither of us are experts in terms of the Middle East. We debated bringing experts into the conversation but decided to focus on our own experiences and what has led us to our current concerns, our own going curiosity, and ultimately how we can continue to value the radical sacred in every human being, and all creation. Resources that have been helpful to us in our journey: - - by Rashid Khalidi - by Naim Stefan Atik - by Elias Chacour and David Hazard - by Barbara Rossing - - - -  Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Setting the Context 05:49 Reading from Richard Rohr and Setting the Intention 09:23 Phil's Journey and Experiences in Israel and Palestine 27:04 Repression of Journalists and Activists 30:05 The Misuse of Religion as a Tool for Power and Violence 35:02 Interpreting Religious Texts with Love and Kindness 42:11 Seeking Diverse Sources for a Nuanced Understanding 46:20 Embracing the Shared Humanity of All People
    Played 53 min. 55 sec.
  • Esplicito

    Exploring the Complexities of Grief with Hillary Owen

    15 MAG 2024 · "The only time you can do grief wrong is when you judge yourself for grieving." Note: this episode about grief is heavy and it is long. If you are not in a space to address your grief, maybe save this one for later. Shout out to for joining us in this personal conversation all about grief. This episode opens with a gorgeous poem by - from her book -, Phil, and Jenny have all had different dealings with grief over the years. We’ve all lost and all responded differently. How can we learn from one another and from remaining open about our grief? What might help us collectively and individually in the midst of deep grief? Does our Enneagram number play into how we might handle our grief? Join us as we delve into what makes us human, our capacity for deep love and deep grief.  Grief Resources (Things we mentioned, or meant to anyways): - - - &  by: Pema Chodron  - by: Michelle Zauner  - by Elizabeth Kubler Ross and David Kessler - by: Richard Rohr - - by: Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Guest 01:50 Ada Lamone Poem 04:09 Resistance to Talking About Grief 07:47 Unresolved Grief and Funeral Experiences 09:30 Different Coping Strategies for Grief 21:07 Grief as an Antidote to Trauma 26:41 Differentiating Trauma and Grief 32:08 Engaging with Feelings in Grief 36:36 The Importance of Relational Buffering 38:26 Individual Approaches to Healthful Grieving 40:23 The Need for Supportive Relationships in Grief 43:04 Different Approaches to Grief: Thinking, Feeling, and Doing 45:27 The Power of Human Connection in the Healing Process 47:13 Finding Your Own Path to Healing 50:40 The Role of Spiritual Direction and Therapy in Grief 52:28 Creating Space for Grief in Society and Faith Communities 56:07 Addressing Barriers to Grief Support 01:00:38 Embracing Grief as a Part of Human Experience 01:03:14 The Practice of Mindfulness in Grief 01:05:42 Weird and Unique Ways of Processing Grief 01:10:41 Closing Thoughts on Grief and the Importance of Connection
    Played 1 h 11 min. 58 sec.
  • Esplicito

    Purity Culture... Again (Because it's that bad!)

    8 MAG 2024 · We’re back with Jessica Brazzeal of for her third visit! We heard from so many of you after our episode on purity culture we knew had to expand the conversation! If you missed our previous episode on purity culture start We discuss how purity culture affected us individually and collectively, the orgasm gap that exists in the evangelical world, resources and more. We also dive into the etymology of the word pastor. What is at the root of the word and how we can tell the difference between someone whose words and behaviors are actually pastoral versus a bully with a pulpit.  We expand more on Josh Howerton (of in Rockwall, TX) and male pastors like him who use fear, shame, and blame to control. If you’ve been affected by purity culture and want to connect, find us on I  Resources - - - by: Emily Nagoski - Esther perel - - 00:00 Introduction 00:43 The Impact of Purity Culture 04:00 Personal Experiences with Purity Culture 09:47 The Role of Pastors in Purity Culture 12:31 The Etymology of 'Pastor' 16:08 Platforming Abusive Leaders 21:09 Patriarchal Norms in Religion 24:01 Challenging Patriarchal Structures 24:32 Creating Safe Spaces for Conversations 31:47 Shifting from Judgment to Curiosity 39:31 The Power of Authentic Friendships
    Played 46 min. 7 sec.
  • Esplicito

    Attachment Styles with Hillary Owen

    1 MAG 2024 · In this week's episode Jenny and Phil are joined by Hillary Owen to discuss attachment theory and attachment styles. Hillary, a licensed mental health professional, shares her expertise on the topic and explains the four attachment styles: secure, disorganized, anxious, and avoidant. They also explore the concept of attachment-focused EMDR therapy and how it can help individuals heal from attachment wounds.  In this conversation, Hillary Owen discusses the importance of understanding attachment styles and how they impact our relationships and parenting. She emphasizes the need for self-awareness and self-compassion in order to create healthier and more secure connections. Hillary also explores the intersection of attachment theory and spirituality, highlighting the sacredness of doing inner work and showing up for ourselves. She provides practical steps for individuals to begin their own attachment journey, including reading about attachment styles and practicing mindfulness. Hillary concludes by sharing where she is finding inspiration and, of course, her favorite bird. The conversation around imagination and the brain will likely blow your mind (pun intended). Let us know who your safe character/person is. Find out more about Hillary and her work at Resources: - by Amir Levine. - Life Kit Quiz "" 00:00 Introduction and Background 09:06 Introduction to Attachment Theory and Attachment Styles 25:00 Attachment-Focused EMDR Therapy 31:27 Imagination and Healing 47:38 Practical Steps for Embarking on an Attachment Journey 59:12 The Power of Human Connection and Storytelling
    Played 1 h 3 min. 59 sec.
  • Queer Theology and UMC General Conference with Jenny Bates

    24 APR 2024 · In this episode of Radical Sacred, Jenny and Phil are joined by Jenny Bates a United Methodist in North Texas who is finishing up graduate school at Brite Divinity and recently was approved for Commissioning as a clergyperson in the North Texas Conference of the United Methodist Church. They discuss how Jenny used the Radical Sacred episode on the Sacred Masculine as a resource for a pub theology she hosted, queer theology, and the United Methodist Church General Conference that officially started yesterday. Throughout the episode, Jenny emphasizes the need for inclusivity and the importance of holding space for different perspectives and experiences in the United Methodist Church and beyond. She shares her journey of exploring her own gender identity and the support she receives from her chosen queer family. In the episode she states, "Queer theology showed me that I do have sacred roots," what has helped you identify your sacred roots? Resources Mentioned in the Episode: - Our previous episode on - by Keegan Orsinski - The R of the United Methodist Church - The for the UMC General Conference Also, if you are a United Methodist looking to follow what is happening at General Conference follow these accounts: - - - - Chapters: 00:00 Introduction Jenny Bates and her use of Pub Theology 07:55 Positive Masculinity and Biblical Examples 34:00 Exploring Sacredness through Queer Theology 51:58 Jenny's Journey of Gender Exploration 59:09 The Importance of Community in the Journey
    Played 59 min. 41 sec.
  • Transcend and Include with Marcus Jones

    17 APR 2024 · In this week's episode Phil and Jenny are joined by Marcus Jones, Director of the Wesley Foundation at the University of Texas at Arlington. After referencing this concept in many episodes, Phil and Jenny invited Marcus to discuss this idea of Transcend and Include. They reflect on their own spiritual journeys and the various faith traditions they have been a part of, while also emphasizing the importance of deep spirituality and spiritual disciplines in their lives. Marcus shares how he incorporates grace into his growth process and how he engages in conversational scripture reading to challenge and dismantle preconceived notions. They also discuss the future of the church and the need for lay-driven ministry.  References from this episode: - - I,from%20the%20broader%20academic%20community. by Ken Wilber - by Otis Moss III - by Cole Arthur Riley - Hope is Here!: Spiritual Practices for Pursuing Justice and Beloved Community by Luther E. Smith You can find Marcus: - Marcu's blog - on social @marcus.m.jones Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 00:27 Transcendent Include 04:24 Faith Background and Spiritual Formation 06:37 Youth Ministry and Sneakers as a Ministry 09:21 Transition to United Methodist Church 10:20 Progressive Theological Development 12:03 Themes of Social Justice and Missionary Baptist Background 12:25 Moving from Conservative Theology to Liberal, Progressive, and Centered 15:40 Clothing Ideas and Concepts in Grace 17:46 Learning from the Past and Mentors 20:00 Purity Culture and Guilt 20:27 Moving Past Shame 20:45 Prayer and Spiritual Disciplines 25:39 Reading Scripture Formationally 30:57 The Future of the Church 33:16 Expanding Worldview 36:32 Eliminating Poverty
    Played 41 min. 10 sec.
  • Esplicito

    Tattooing as Sacred Practice with Stephanie Adelina

    10 APR 2024 · What do a pastor, a spiritual director, and a tattoo artist have in common? On the surface, perhaps not a ton. And yet, as we explore the topic of Tattooing and Presence we realize that when done well- pastors, spiritual directors, and tattoo artists all give their presence to people  in order to create a deeper connection between each other and self. At their best, all should be people that create spaces that are safe and healing.  In this episode Phil and Jenny visit with, the founder of (a Queer tattoo collective) located in Elmwood, in Dallas TX.  This conversation discusses tattooing as an art form. Including: - Stephanie's ability to provide a safe space for all the people while also creating gorgeous artwork on their bodies. - Tattooing as a somatic and healing practice and Pegasus' hope for the future. - Living creatively and authentically. - Forging your own path when the industry you're in isn't all that it could be. - Pegasus' connection to, the performing arts school in Dallas. - Stephanie shares about being an If you are interested in a meaningful tattoo experience that is rooted in connection and care contact the good folks at For more resources on tattooing check out: - by Gabbes Torres - about Pegasus  Have you gotten a tattoo that helped you connect back to your own sacred roots? We'd love to hear about it! Connect with us on 
    Played 1 h 48 sec.
  • Purity Culture with Jessica Brazeal

    3 APR 2024 · In this week's episode Jenny and Phil welcome Jessica Brazeal back to the podcast as the first time repeat guest. Jessica joins the conversation to discuss a sermon that recently went viral from a megachurch pastor in Rockwall, TX. Jenny, being from Rockwall, was deeply frustrated by the misogynistic words of this sermon and immediately emailed Phil and Jessica to set up a time to discuss.  In the episode they discuss what purity culture is, how it impacted their adolescence, how it continues to harm people today, and so often results in abusive situations. They talk about purity culture from the perspective of being parents, but also parents who are healing from the harms of this movement, and their hopes for a better approach to a healthy sexuality for the next generation. As said in the episode, "Healthy conversations about sexuality should be free from shame and fear." Be aware this conversation does discuss sexual situations and talks of abuse. Jessica reference's Nadia Bolz-Weber's book  Chapters00:00 - (Re)Introducing Jessica Brazeal 01:02- Reacting to a Harmful Sermon 03:40 - The Destructive Nature of Purity Culture 08:20 - The Objectification of Women in Purity Culture 09:28 - The Link Between Purity Culture and Abuse 11:42 - Explaining Purity Culture 14:38 - The Need for Healthy Conversations 16:14 - Navigating Sexuality as Parents 21:46 - The Isolating and Ostracizing Nature of Purity Culture 22:22 - The Long-lasting Impact of Shame and Trauma 23:18 - Power Dynamics and Control in Purity Culture 24:07 - The Importance of Consent and Agency 24:38 - Therapy as a Path to Healing 26:53 - Promoting Healthy Conversations about Sexuality
    Played 39 min. 22 sec.

Remember, you are on sacred ground. Stay rooted. For two years Jenny Misslin and Rev. Phil Dieke have been contemplating a podcast. An opportunity to discuss spirituality, nature, community, and...

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Remember, you are on sacred ground. Stay rooted.

For two years Jenny Misslin and Rev. Phil Dieke have been contemplating a podcast. An opportunity to discuss spirituality, nature, community, and the interconnectedness of it all. All things they love, are very anxious about, and eager to explore.

Radical, defined as "the relating to the fundamental nature of something." This term can be divisive, but to Jenny and Phil it is an invitation to connect back to the divine goodness, the sacred, at the core of all creation.

Radical Sacred is an invitation to join them in curiosity as they explore questions such as:
  • What is an experience that led you to a kinder, more inclusive spirituality?
  • Who was the first person you met that broadened your ideas about the Divine?
  • Where do you experience the Holy?
  • If liberation of self leads us on a pathway to liberation for all, what has that looked like in your own spirituality?
  • How do you find joy and pleasure in these wild times?
  • Has there been an anchor for you as your spirituality has shifted?
  • How can the stories we tell ourselves harm or heal ourselves, and creation?
Not experts, Jenny and Phil strive to live the questions while exploring the mystery of all that is unsolved in our hearts and souls.

Will you join them?
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