I hoped he would get better as the podcast wore on, but nope, same thin logic and closed mind that’s kept the subject spinning it’s tires for decades. Apparently these craft and these objects are being seen all over the place on a daily and constant basis and they are up to absolutely nothing at all, just to keep MUFON chasing it’s tail apparently. Thankfully, not everyone ignores obvious patterns and recurring themes, but far too many.

I don't quite agree with your guest that MUFON should stay away from the "fringe" topics related to UFOs. I can agree that MUFON should stay away from people who are obviously fantasy prone new age space cadets, and loopy people in general, but I also think wherever you have serious, rational people with consent data MUFON should be investigating no matter what the subject matter and no matter where it leads. This should include abduction, Sasquatch, missing persons, "hauntings," and so on. Otherwise MUFON is at a dead end and always will be. If you're simply going to chase after nuts and bolts craft, what's the point. We have enough data on the craft to satisfy anyone reasonable they exist. It's time to get past that and learn who is behind them, why they are here, what connection they share with other phenomena and so on. To do this, no, you're not always going to be able to rely on the kind of hyper skeptical western scientific method to navigate and progress. Sometimes, and your guest should understand, you must use an investigators intuition. You're gathering intelligence to develop theory. Rarely are you going to be able to "prove" anything beyond a doubt and sometimes things are going to sound silly to an outsider. That's the way it is.