This week, in episode 192, special guest Jenelle Etzel, who majored in weaving, tells Shawn Busse, who majored in ceramics, why she believes attending art school and managing a punk rock band were perfect preparation for building a thriving real estate business. Her agency, Living Room Realty, has 130 brokers, roughly $5 million in revenue, and a market position that stands out among the big boys. While she once considered business a dirty word, she has embraced entrepreneurship and learned lots of important lessons, mostly through trial and error. For one, she figured out that there was a segment of the housing market—or the potential housing market—that more traditional brokers were ignoring. She also figured out, somewhat counterintuitively, that her real customers aren’t the people who buy and sell homes. Her real customers, she says, are her brokers, who happen to be independent contractors: “I can't tell anybody what to do,” Jenelle tells us. “So it's like being a politician, in a way. I've got a lot of responsibility with very little authority, and that's an interesting leadership challenge.”