Former public radio reporter Brenda Salinas and former public television producer Cecilia Garcia reflect on how far public media hasn’t come on “diversity” in the last forty years—and why. Also: how producers of color can protect their magic. Lewis and Ramona share their experiences in public media, and suggest a different framework for thinking about “diversity.” Salinas, an NPR Kroc Fellow and a producer at KUT Austin, describes how she was pushed out of public media by racism and sexism; Garcia, creator of the bilingual Latino newsmagazine Para mi Pueblo, sat on a task force in 1977 calling for the kind of diversity public media still struggles with.