Why is it that so many Americans continue to justify, even celebrate, Hamas’ slaughter of Israelis, attending rallies in support of Palestinians and calling Hamas terrorists “freedom fighters?”

Today, thriller author Mark M. Bello and I are pleased to present legendary feminist and bestselling author Phyllis Chesler to discuss all of this on the Justice Counts and Lean to the Left podcasts.

Chesler is a psychotherapist and Professor Emerita of Psychology at City University of New York. She has authored 20 books including A Politically Incorrect Feminist, The New Antisemitism, An American Bride in Kabul, and the groundbreaking Women & Madness. She has lectured and organized political, legal, religious, and human rights campaigns in the United States, Canada, Europe, Israel, Central Asia, and the Far East.

Since 9/11, Dr. Chesler has focused on the rights of women, dissidents, and gays in the Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim communities; the rights of women in prison; the rise of anti-Semitism/anti-Zionism, the demonization of Israel, the nature of terrorism, forced veiling, forced marriage, polygamy, and tribal psychology.

Dr. Chesler has conducted four studies about honor killing that have appeared in Middle East Quarterly. She has submitted affidavits for Muslim and ex-Muslim women who are seeking asylum or citizenship based on their credible belief that their families will honor kill them. In 2021-2022, Dr. Chesler co-led a team which rescued 400 women from Afghanistan. That work continues.

Here are some key questions we discussed with her:

BOB: You’ve been able to bridge the great divide between the Muslim community and the Jewish community. Why is it that the peaceful Muslim community is incapable of speaking out against Islamic terror? Why, for instance, won’t the Palestinian people welcome Israel as liberators from a terrorist regime?

Mark: A foreign invader comes into your country illegally and viciously and inhumanely murders and dismembers an entire community of your citizens, men, women, children, and even infants. Not surprisingly, you wage war against the vicious terrorists at fault. Many citizens and countries around the world, including citizens of the United States, are condemning you and your government instead of the terrorists who are responsible for the atrocities and who use their own people as human shields. Two-part question: 1. Would this be happening to any other modern democracy other than Israel? 2. Is the world’s response appropriate or an example of modern anti-Semitism?

Bob: You’ve commented that “Western academics, including feminists, have completely lost their reason and their morality; that they are revealing more openly who they really are and gloating about Israelis who have been raped, burned alive, shot dead, or kidnapped. Or, you say, “they are maintaining a pained and awful silence.” Why is that? Is this causing divisions among key women’s organizations?

Mark: Since the holocaust, the cry, especially in the Jewish community has been “Never Again!” Countries have built Holocaust memorials and museums all over the world. It seems, however, that the civilized world has a short memory. Aren’t these “Never Again” crimes? What’s the difference in 2023?

Bob: in a blog you published on your website, you write that “Because Israel has dared to fight back, Jews around the world are being “punished” for Israel’s alleged “crimes.” Jews everywhere are being verbally harassed, demonized, threatened, physically attacked and sometimes murdered. Visibly Jewish students no longer feel safe in their classrooms or on the street. “We are all hostages,” you say. Can you please comment further?

Mark: In my writing, I often quote the Martin Niemoller poem, “First They Came.You have written that: “If we don’t act, they will come for all of us sooner rather than later. Israel alone cannot be expected to fight the battle for Western civilization.” Please explain what’s at stake.

Bob: President Biden’s approval ratings have plummeted since the war began. I don’t quite understand it. The way things are going, the only alternative will be Trump. Which of the two is the better person to manage this crisis and why?

Mark: Is the Israeli response to October 7, 2023, any different than America’s response to September 11, 2001? If not, why did the United States receive international support, including military support, while Israel is widely condemned?

Bob: On Nov. 14, you published a piece in The Hill stating that “Israel will likely be victorious in its war of self-defense against the Hamas terrorists who perpetrated the Oct. 7 massacre. But the expected victory will not truly resolve the situation.” What will resolve the situation?

Mark: 20 years ago, you wrote a book called “The New Anti-Semitism.” Here we are, 20 years later, and it seems to be getting worse. What conditions in 2003 caused you to write the book, and how do those conditions compare to what’s happening today?

Bob: This is the 21st century, not the middle ages. You have done heroic work in the area of women, gays, and dissidents' rights in the Muslim, Hindu, and Sikh communities, where forced marriage, forced veiling, and polygamy are huge problems. Why is almost no action taken to stop these human rights violations? How does the world stop these atrocities?

Mark: What is the future of the feminist movement in these archaic religious communities? Why aren’t feminists speaking out about this? Are we making progress? What can people do to help?

Mark: As you know, some of these archaic practices exist in Orthodox Judaism, too. While these are not as extreme as those in the Muslim, Sikh, or Hindu communities, they do exist. Women are confined to subsidiary roles in the bedroom and kitchen—they wear scarves or wigs on their heads. Their access to education and social growth are restricted. Care to comment?

Mark: When the war is over, I believe we need a Nuremberg-style trial against Hamas for crimes against humanity. What’s your view?

Bob: Let’s talk about the UN. After WW 2, the UN helped to create the State of Israel. Today, all I see are comments critical of Israel. What can and should the UN be doing in 2023?

Mark: On November 3, you wrote an interesting op-ed about the NY Times coverage of the Israel-Hamas war, very critical of the Times coverage. I was shocked when the only place I could watch the protest in support of Israel was, of all places, FOX News. These are only two examples of many. What’s going on? Why doesn’t the extreme left, or even