Today's guest is Joan Garry, author of Guide to Nonprofit Leadership and host of the Nonprofits are Messy podcast. Molly MacCready (host of the Nonprofit Optimist podcast) and Joan discuss the importance of knowing what activities fuel you, how to define success and impact beyond the typical metrics, and some ways to learn and grow as a nonprofit following this unexpected pandemic time. Joan shares from her experiences of working with small nonprofit leaders within the Nonprofit Leadership Lab, along with her own years as a nonprofit leader, board member, and donor.  See our website for more show notes: www.nonprofitoptimist.com/blog/npo-047-joan-garry