In this episode, Dr. David Hanscom talks with Dee Wagner, a counselor and movement therapist. She discusses her Chi4Two method based on Polyvagal Theory. She explains that Chi4Two focuses on mobilizing movement with "play-dance" rather than fight-or-flight responses, involving three key physiological aspects: coordinating breathing and swallowing, helping move and mix intestinal content, and utilizing neurotransmitters like acetylcholine and dopamine without adrenaline. She demonstrates practical exercises including reaching movements and contralateral head movements to help shift clients from fight-flight to play-dance mobilization, working with both therapist and client in two-person interactions. Download the transcript:https://backincontrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/Transcript-Interview-1-w-Dee-Wagner.pdf Dee Wagner is a long-time counselor, dance movement therapist, somatic educator, writer and presenter. Wagner originated a mindful embodiment method called Chi for Two. Chi means life force. The words for Two call attention to the fact that our two-person interactions affect our life force—our energy—our nervous system functioning.  For more information, visit: https://chifortwo.com

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