In this episode, fresh off of a walk listening to one of his favorite podcasts, The Telepathy Tapes, Brian engages Jamie in a conversation about the concept of "finding love" (the goal of our modern dating apps), versus Making Love...choosing to love, deciding to love, expressing love, even when you don't feel like it.  They discuss how many confuse infatuation and novelty for love, and the more nuanced, difficult topic of parsing the goodness of "self-love" against taking it to an extreme, which looks more like selfishness, and self-protection.  They knew to tread lightly as they totally respect people learning to love themselves, but also know that if we're not careful, we can lose the sacrificial aspect of love that enables us to forgive, give grace, and live in a fulfilling marriage that will last for the long haul.

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